Wednesday, September 19, 2012

One day I'll dog Obama .. Promise!

Facebook is a wonderful invention. It's not wonderful to listen to lemmings spout political philosophy they know nothing about. It is wonderful to engage in educated political debate with friends on both sides of the color wheel from time to time. Mitt Romney was nice enough to provide some foot-in-mouth disease for the media yesterday, and my friends were nice enough to debate his comments with me. Without further ado, here is our running commentary:



  • Wow Mitt! Class warfare anyone??
 ·  · @CoachSTK on Twitter
  • Brad Stokes and Kevin Jones like this.
    • Adam Girton He said nothing but the absolute truth
      Yesterday at 7:12am via mobile ·  · 3
    • Scott Kerr Then you are ignorant of the people who support Obama. The 47% of people Mitt was referring to are a very small percentage of voters and that's why he can insult them.
    • Christopher Roach Adam totally agree !! Romney 2012 !!
      Yesterday at 8:38am via mobile · 
    • Missy Specht-Saldana Enough with the political rambling Carville! Sincerely , Mary
      Yesterday at 8:50am via mobile · 
    • Scott Kerr Sorry Mary, just hard to ignore the FACT that the 47% Mitt was referring to do pay taxes to the Federal Government called Social Security (the surplus of which is deposited into the government's general fund) and Medicare, not to mention the state & local taxes (sales, property, income). Mitt also includes in this percentage the 16 million elderly (5% of the total US population) who avoid income taxes because of breaks designed solely for elderly. It's also telling that none of the people commenting here, including myself, could have afforded to attend the dinner where Mitt made his comments. Sad when people don't know they are the one's being talked about.
    • Oak Martin He didn't say they didn't pay taxes to the government. He specifically stated they don't pay income tax which is a fact. We all know there is a difference between that and the taxes you mention and with which the media are rebutting errr...crucifying his statement. Here are some questions folks need to be asking. Why was secretly taped and held for release since May? Is it any more uncomfortable for either side now as opposed to then? Why do we continue to challenge the perspective and background of one candidate and have yet to do so for the incumbent? Nearly every attempt to find similar or identical information or to question the ideological influences of our POTUS has been squelched since his candidacy was announced. Personally, I agree with Romney as I see evidence of it on a daily basis, some of it brazenly boasted to me. Until the last couple of years, I was part of that 47%. I'm not offended by the factual nature of the statistic or by the generalization that all who make up the statistic support Obama. I'm not a supporter of Obama and frankly never will be. There is class and racial warfare being waged in this election. It is being fanned in an effort to distract all voters from the core issues that should be discussed and addressed by the candidates. Why is no one challenging this POTUS to sequester Congress to keep us for the taxmageddon and fiscal cliff we are doomed to realize on Jan. 1, 2013? Why is no one challenging this POTUS on his inactivity with national security threats? Why is no one challenging Romney on how he would bring up the lower class and bridge the gap between those dependent upon Federal support and independent wage earners? It's all bread and circus and it's growing both wearisome and troubling. Sorry, but this media clip is much ado about nothing...truly.
      Yesterday at 11:11am ·  · 1
    • Ryan Adams Just like the people clinging to their guns and religions...
      Yesterday at 11:12am via mobile · 
    • Scott Kerr Just like we all know there is a difference between the 47% of American's who pay no federal income tax and the percent of American's "who are dependent on government" and "who believe they are victims" and "who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them". $50,000 a plate .... who here can splash that amount of cash on dinner with Mitt??
    • Scott Kerr And you're 100% correct Ryan .. the government has no more business legislating morality than I do, but don't tell the Religious Right that!!
    • Scott Kerr Also please remember which party passed the tax cuts which wiped out the tax liability for the largest chunk of that 47% .. hint: it wasn't the Democrats!
    • Ryan Adams Scott- you're joking, right? The 47 % who pay no federal income taxes are the people who won't or don't work or make so little that they get the earned income tax credit which most assuredly wasn't a republican initiative.
      Yesterday at 11:25am via mobile · 
    • Oak Martin Guess who was a key force behind fanning the flame of this video thats been on youtube since May? Jimmy Carter IV. Things that make you go hmmm?
      Yesterday at 11:41am via mobile ·  · 1
    • Oak Martin Scott on election day 2008 and days that follow, a common statement made directly to med by folks who fit Mitts classification was "Obama won and brothers gonna get paid." I continue to hear similar statements from similar folks. Romney is not off base with his generalization. He is merely echoing the idea attributed to Ben Franklin that "when the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."
      Yesterday at 11:49am via mobile · 
    • Scott Kerr Ryan you tell me which party passed legislation reducing the tax liability for people? It wasn't the tax and spend Democrats!! The unintended consequence for cutting taxes for everyone was that people making below $50,000 can commonly (through mortgage interest deductions, educational expense deductions, etc...) pay no federal income tax and about half of all households making between $50,000 & $100,000 can pay no federal income tax. You can read about how it works here: http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/UploadedPDF/1001547-Why-No-Income-Tax.pdf If people making $50,000 are freeloaders than our country is in bigger trouble than any of us know. Oak .. you are correct. Very similar to Donald Trump and his support of birthers. There is also a big difference between folks who fit Mitt's classification saying "brothers gonna get paid" and Obama saying "brothers gonna get paid". As for Benjamin Franklin, he was correct. I'm not a huge supporter of entitlement programs, but I'm also wise enough to know there are people who benefit from these programs and go on to lead productive, income-tax paying lives who would not without government assistance. I, for one, benefited greatly from Pell Grants and government subsidized student loans to get my education and become a productive, income-tax paying member of society. I could not have borrowed from my mother and her $12,000 per year salary to go to college as Mitt believes I should have done. Using Mitt's logic, I spent my formative years as a free-loader and would never vote for a Republican. So it's curious to me that I voted Republican in 1992, 1996, 2000 and 2004 (just like my mother, father, both sets of grandparents until their deaths).
    • Ryan Adams Scott, you couldve done like I and alot of people I know did and joined the military and paid for college that way.
      Yesterday at 12:17pm via mobile · 
    • Scott Kerr Not to denigrate your service, but you used the government's money to pay for college. So did I .. and then I repaid all of it with interest. And today I make enough money to pay federal income tax!! Mitt Romney should love me, not insult me.
      Yesterday at 12:47pm ·  · 1
    • Tom Nerl Mr History Teacher: please recall Candidate Obama's April 2008 comments about the other side toting their guns. And then repeat the class warfare statement. Thank you
      19 hours ago via mobile · 
    • Oak Martin I don't believe it's Romney's position and it's certainly not mine that government assistance isn't beneficial or needed. I'm not ashamed to share that my family and I benefited from subsidized housing, WIC, SSDI, and CHIP for a period of time. The difference is that I never viewed those benefits as a solution to my situation. Honestly, I took them with great reluctance, but am grateful they were available. There is abundant evidence though, that the (ab)use of these and other programs are excessively out of hand and only increasing. Add to that that only 53% of Americans pay taxes and you have very simple economic problem. At the end of the day accounting is easy...dollars in minus dollars out. It has to stop, EVERYONE has to pony up. That's Romney's point. Instead of engaging over the issue that is the elephant in the room, the liberal establishment is going to blow this hugely out of context in an effort to sustain power. On a side note, I wonder what we would hear in the donor meetings Obama has with Soros and others?? Hmmm.
      17 hours ago · 
    • Scott Kerr tom .. if it was 2008 I would, but it's 2012. oak .. here is my problem with Romney's statement. he uses a number (47% even though the OMB and IRS say the number is 46% .. no difference really) which describes the percentage of American's who own no federal income tax and then extrapolates that number to say all people who pay no income tax claim victim status or expect the government to pay for all their needs. facts show a different - completely different! - picture of people who rely on the government for their needs. the U.S. Dept. of Health which administers TANF - the programs which people call welfare and you referenced above - says approximately 8% of the US population receives some assistance from TANF and 1.7% of the population receives over 50% of their income from TANF. 8% of the population is not a dependent class of people on the wealthy, and the statement makes even less sense when you consider only 1.7% of our population receive over 50% of their income from welfare. there is also a HUGE difference between 46 or 47% and 8%, but Romney doesn't differentiate between those two groups of people. the elephant in the room is government spending period, not just on entitlement programs. military spending, mandatory spending and interest on the national debt account for all the tax revenue our government collects. all discretionary spending is deficit spending, yet neither party has advocated cutting all discretionary spending nor have they even been able to make a meaningful cut to mandatory spending. and if you look at the last meaningful change to welfare legislation it came in 1996 under a republican legislature and a democratic president - imagine that .. bipartisan cooperation .. something which no longer exists. our tax code needs to be thrown out and completely rewritten, but neither party has put forth a plan to do that either. this congress, and to be fair president, have been the least productive in the modern era of US government. they are ALL to blame for the situation our country currently faces. by insulting 47% of the US population and saying "I don't care about them because they don't support me" will only serve to continue the divisiveness in Washington. many people today have thrown around ideas from the framers of the Constitution, forgetting that what set the framers apart was a willingness to compromise for the greater good. all of our leaders would be wise to remember that today.
      17 hours ago · 
    • Jerry Schrock My position on this has been made very clear... bout the only thing I can add is this... If what Mitt said was so true... let's see how many time he repeats it on the record over the next month or so.
      16 hours ago ·  · 1
    • Oak Martin The way the media and and you are using the 47% comment is out of context. As he acknowledged, it wasn't eloquently stated. I've listened to the audio several times. In context, he's clearly stating that he doesn't believe he should put a lot of effort or concern into attracting those 47% of voters. Rather, he sees value in focusing on the independents, moderates, undecideds who represent about 10-15% of voters...the same ones Obama focused on four years ago. Only difference is no on has Obama saying it on tape. It is truly a mountain made out of less than a molehill, but in age of soundbytes it's going to sting his campaign. On the spending, bipartisanship, all to blame points, I'm with you. This sound byte though only fans the flame of the divisiveness you mentioned.
      16 hours ago · 
    • Jerry Schrock Oh, one more thing... Miguel Cabrera IS the best hitter in baseball.
      16 hours ago · 
    • Scott Kerr i agree Romney eventually says he has to focus on the 5-10% of independent voters, but it's not taken out of context when he answers this question, "For the past three years, all everybody's been told is, "Don't worry. We'll take care of it." How are we gonna do it, in two months before the elections, to convince everybody you've gotta take care of yourself?" with the answer, "Well, there are 47% of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right? There are 47% who are with him. Who are dependent upon government, who believe that-- that they are victims, who believe that government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they're entitled to healthcare, to food, to housing, to you name it. But that's-- it's an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what. And-- and-- I mean the president starts off with 48%, 49%, 40-- or he-- he starts off with a huge number. These are people who pay no income tax. 47% of Americans pay no income taxes. So our message of low taxes doesn't connect. And he'll be out there talking about tax cuts for the rich. I mean that's what they sell every-- every four years." That was his verbatim lead in to saying he needs to focus on 5-10% of the independent voters. The question was about convincing Americans they need to take care of themselves, not swaying independent voters. If he had said,"47% of American's support Obama for a variety of reasons, and I can't sway those voters", then i could buy your argument about the statement being all about value targeting. but at a $50,000, mostly white, all upper-upper-class (i'm being very generous in not calling the attendees rich) dinner he chose to use an extremely prejudicial number to lump all supporters of Obama as the group of people who pay no tax, insinuating that only the poor support Obama. it's simply not true. a soundbite is "read my lips, no new taxes" or "i did not have sexual relations with that women", not expounding on an answer by insulting Americans.
      16 hours ago · 
    • Scott Kerr yes schrock .. miggy cabrera is the best hitter in baseball
      16 hours ago · 
    • Oak Martin You know as well as I do it will be minimized to such in the same way "you didn't build that" has been. Yes, he was appealing to his audience. Don't all politicians do that? As I said earlier, let's hear an unauthorized taping of Obama in Hollywood or at Vegas last week or with Soros and Co.
      15 hours ago · 



Here's the rub: Romney and his red friends would have you believe there is a large class of people who are completely dependent on the federal government for their food and housing and 'whatever', that this class of people claim they are victims of the system and coincidentally pay no income tax. Red kool-aid drinkers will tell you this class of dependent people is 47% of the American population, which is really close to number of American's who have no federal income tax liability (46% according to the IRS). The problem with this red logic lies in the numbers, or lack thereof. The U.S. Department of Health - the government organization in charge of Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF), often called welfare - says only 8% of the U.S. population (29.9 million people) received funds from TANF in 2011, and only 1.7% of the U.S. population receive over 50% of their income from TANF. So at most one in every twelve and a half people (8 in 100) are in this dependent class, no where near the 47% number. Raise your hand - digitally of course - if you've every taken out a subsidized student load, gotten a Pell Grant or Supplemental Educational Opportunty Grant, used the Montgomery G.I. Bill (written by Sonny Montgomery, a Democrat from Mississippi BTW) to pay for your college education, received unemployment insurance or workers compensation when you were out of work or relied on food stamps to put food on the table. If you answered any of those questions with a yes - and I listed a small, small percentage of federal programs - then you are technically part of the dependent class. Yes, that includes all of you red friends!! It seems many red politicians have forgotten the basic goals laid out for the U.S. government in the Constitution, namely promoting the general welfare.

Instead all politicians ignore the basic problem with our government - spending!! Is entitlement spending a problem? Yes, and it will only grow larger and larger. Is military spending a problem? Yes, and it will only grow larger and larger. In 2008, our military - with the consent of our Congress and President - decided to spend $662million to refurbish the U.S.S. Enterprise, a nuclear aircraft carrier, to extent it's operation life until 2012 (after a two year refurbishment period, the Navy actually only will get two years of operational life from the refurbished Enterprise). This money was spent despite the FACT the U.S. Navy has ten times the number of aircraft carriers of any other navy and the FACT the United States spends more on its military than the next 22 nations COMBINED! Republican President - Democratic Congress .. who's to blame?? The United States doesn't have a tax revenue problem (despite 46% of America having no federal income tax liability), the United States has a spending problem. Instead of pointing to the dependent class as a problem, why not point the finger at the defense contractors who go wildly overbudget ($124BILLION in 2010 alone - more than the mandatory military spending cuts currently before Congress) or are delinquent in their tax payments ($3BILLION in delinquent taxes currently owed by defense contractors alone!!)??? Because criticizing military spending immediately marks you with a scarlet letter - Unpatriotic. So according to red philosophy - hold people responsible for their own well-being, but allow military contractors to behave in the most irresponsible manner possible. U.S. military spending has increased from $300Billion in 2001 to $550 Billion in 2011 ... did I miss an 86% inflation rate over the last decade? Feel free to talk entitlement cuts and dependent classes, just be prepared to hear about the military-industrial complex and the people who benefit from military contractor investments.

Both sides are to blame for the financial cliff the United States is teetering on. People who fail to acknowledge the complicity of both parties for this impending disaster are playing ostrich. Republicans and Democrats alike won't include speaking points about the the financial Freddy Krueger in our government's nightmares. No red and blue glasses for me!



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